Twilight was HUGELY successful BEFORE the movies. It’s a bit part of why it got picked up by for a movie.

What @XimeraGrey said about FSOG was common knowledge when the book blew up as it did. Shows like “Today” and “The View” were talking about the fact it’s appeal to “ordinary housewives”


Yes, exactly.


Having answers is a good thing. When people take their time to come here and explain things that others don’t understand or are under a misconception, it’ll help them to learn if you provide facts.

Okay you are just defying logic now. Why did she pull up the articles? Because you said, “That’s why it sold, there are millions of kinky people out here, and that book proved that theory.” Which is 100% wrong, and she cited evidence…real evidence to refute your wrong opinion. Here reference had nothing to do with “quality of writing” it was about the “content” of the books.


Thank you. 100% correct!


An excellent point.

Another good observation. Thank you for sharing.


Good for you! That’s the type of perseverance which is so important in this business. I predict it’ll serve you well.


long thread and plenty of good points but since no-one has posted the link to Slushkiller I’m going to
It may be 14 yrs old but it still encapsulates why editors and agents reject 98% of the work that comes their way.


I’ll give you a quote that a very experienced publishing director told me “two things get you there - talent and persistence”


Yep, that’s the winning formula to be sure.


Wow, you learn something new everyday…I’ve never heard of Slushkiller. Thanks for the 411.


No, she added other reasons why. But since you, too, have an answer for everything and she sides with you on everything you say, of course, you both are backing one another. I am the lone wolf here.

Sometimes being harsh is the only way to get someone to see what they are doing wrong. We are in a business where you need tough skin, best to start with those tough responses sooner rather than later.

I have said, over and over again, that I know me saying things aren’t going to change how things are.

No. I respond to how I am treated. I treat people with the same tone they give me. I was being extremely nice at first, but as soon as I turned into the other side of me, now I am being negative? Now I am the one being offensive when that’s not even the case.

Nope, sorry but I don’t have time for this back and forth nonsense that isn’t getting me anywhere. I have complimented some of the things you’ve pointed out, but you keep quoting me when I respond to OTHER PEOPLE to take up for them, like a lawyer.

We are all grown. I don’t like feeling ‘bullied.’ or ganged up on. Who would?

I don’t make excuses. Thank you, next.

Thank you, next.

You stop being so offensive.

Yep, fine.

Yep, again.

No, I wasn’t.

And this time, I’m not hungry. :slight_smile: had my coffee and getting ready to write. Now, I am leaving. And quote me all you want, I won’t be looking back in here, anyway.


Ciao. Or is that chow? Well, at least we know your rudeness and entitlement issues aren’t because you need a snack.

Thank you, Michael, AW, Ximera, Alec and any of the regulars I may have missed. This thread has been extremely informative.


I think you win comment of the day! lol There are some writers who are overly sensitive, entitled and combative. It’s usually symptomatic of someone who hasn’t yet developed any objectivity from their manuscript and who has very little experience of how publishing works. Those are not the sort of writers agents and publishers want to work with as they are difficult to handle and usually don’t take editorial feedback very well. I remember getting my first editorial letter back from the publisher’e editor and it was brutal. You need a certain level of maturity to deal with it, recognise that the publisher and their team is working with you to make the book better, and you need to be able to knuckle down and do the work. Maybe it’s for the better that some people haven’t had their genius recognised by agents yet, as they haven’t reached the level of maturity needed to deal with the practicalities of seeing a book through the production process.


You are welcome. Trying to make “real sense” (rather than speculation or personal opinion) is what we are all trying to do here. I’m glad to hear you find it helpful.


Maybe there should be the five stages of writing like the five stages of grief. If there was…this (that time when you’ve yet to develop any objectivity regarding a manuscript and have little knowledge about how publishing works) definitely would be one of them. It’s something that many new writers go through. The good ones get past it, learn, grow, and move on. Those who can’t will generally always be unsatisfied and feel that the failures they had were do to a “screwed up system” not because their writing wasn’t good enough. After all, they already KNOW it’s perfect.


That is so true. Taking criticism on board is hard. I nearly had a double load of kittens when the feedback from the editor trundled in.
After taking so many deep breaths I was basically hyperventilating, I sat down went through her comments and report in great detail. I then addressed the points she raised, read writing guides to address them, reworked the character maps, the plotline etc.
I then sat down and revised. I’m still doing that, am on the second round and 50% of the novel is new. It’s a better novel for the feedback. I will do things differently in future.
It’s hard to accept one is still on a learning curve (the novel in question was number three. I’m on number seven and I do things differently already).
But this attitude is unfortunately quite common. I got it as well in a critique round where somebody invited me to feedback. I did and there were plenty of problems I could see.
Response “Oh no, that’s not what I wanted. I’m looking for ideas to embellish. I’m a seasoned author, my novels are perfect.”


That’s great that you were able to push past the knee-jerk reaction and take to heart the feedback. Although I do want to warn about one little aspect. You don’t have to incorporate EVERYTHING an editor tells you to. Basically the authors job is to take the feedback, determine what makes sense and what doesn’t and then implement those things they agree with. Never forget it’s your book. I’ll be the first to admit that it’s a difficult balancing act (trying to decide what to change and what to keep), but like most things in this business there is a lot of subjectivity and there will be sometimes when you and your editor disagree, but if you REALLY think the book will be better if you stand your ground on a particular point. then do so.


thanks Michael!

she said that herself, and I have every intention of defending a few elements she wants out. There are there for a reason, and I will not implement something else she would like to see, again for a reason.

One needs to have a vision for the story - but at the same time be flexible enough to adjust if those adjustments will make the story better. It’s as easy - or as difficult - as that


Truth… but you need to be certain that their vision for the book is the same as yours.


Yup. If that weren’t the case I would have pulled the plug immediately. It happened to a friend of mine, that was a bit of an eye opener.