why is it taking so long for people to get woke?

discussion
world

#183

You’re commin’ in reeeeeeal late with that shit. We gettin’ slap happy in this bitch! But I can’t resist…

It’s only incomplete when a cause for the disparity is asserted. I agree that poverty plays a huge role, and I would even say that at some point in American history black people where set up to fail. But it’s been too long for slavery and segregation to continue to make so significant an impact. It’s rather easy to prove this, in fact, when we consider that black people actually were doing far better in the 60’s than they are now! Crime stats have risen, fatherless homes have risen. Have we become MORE racist since then? Or has something changed in the black community that is hurting them?


#185

I’m going to add my opinion then dip.

Personally, I think people should treat people as the person they are, not tie everyone into groups.

A shooter targeting a group, does not mean that shooter speaks for the rest of the world.

A person who doesn’t choose to help a minority group doesn’t make them racist/sexist/or any other type of thing. For all we no, they probably wouldn’t choose to help fight for people of their own group/race/whatever they associate with.

From what I’ve seen (My experience) People have enough going on in their own lives, raising families, dealing with their own problems, to go far out of their way to fight for every single group that wants it, and to call them any sort of names or tie them to any groups because they do not actively fight for them, is wrong.

Me personally, I do not care if someone is gay, lesbian, straight, trans, black, white, Asian, unicorn, hippos, or a frog. I just don’t care. Live your life, I’ll live mine.

If someone is physically assaulting someone in front of me, I don’t care what group you’re in from the above, I will help protect you any way I can.

As for their beliefs, they can believe what they want, don’t force their beliefs on me as if that is what is right to believe. Being right is an opinion, not a fact. What is right for some is not for others.

And yes, both sides, all sides, everyone thinks they’re right. I just don’t care who’s right or wrong. No one has all the information. That’s why I base what I know as facts. As I said, if someone is being hurt in front of me, I will act, as for all this internet and social media pitting people against each other, no, I do not think everything is as bad as the media says it is. Some cases, some areas, yea, but as a whole? No.

I’ve lived in many states, moved most of my life. From MY experiences, I have not seen any sort of issues like the media shows, but that’s their job, “It bleeds it reads” they show negative because it sells and they can spin it to make it sound worse than it is.

If you want to make a change and want people to help, try to ask them to treat the people they see every day with kindness and let that spread. Trying to force others to see from another point of view doesn’t always work and usually leads to arguing and insulting. Which I’m sure I’ll get some insults, or people saying I’m wrong, or whatever they want to say. Guess what? I don’t care, that’s their freedom to say what they want.

I think people need to treat others as the person they are and with kindness. Hold a person accountable for their actions and stop associating people with groups. The individual will not always match a group.


#186

Or, we can pretend the 2008 financial crisis that had more impact on the working class wasn’t a thing.

We can ignore a collective array of factors. Or we could pretend that it’s a one for all.

Again.

Framework.


#188

As noted above, economists have learned that even when all things are considered equal–educational background, profession, life expectancy–the income gap persists and is increasing.

Also, crime stats have fallen.


#189

I probably could’ve read further in the thread. :thinking: It’s a rousing discussion, but I’m just here for the stats lol


#190

I think the overall problem with acting like individuals only act or are treated on individual accord is that—it’s simply isn’t true.

We can’t solve a problem by only tapping at at symptoms (In this case addressing just individual people instead of the systems that create them.) It might might things tangentially better, but if you don’t solve the root cause it’ll never go away.


#191

Stats are always neat to look at! :smiley:


#192

Cosign. A person can learn equality at an interpersonal level and still (perhaps unknowingly) empower the systems that oppress entire groups of people through their votes and where they choose to give their resources.


#193

Yeah, I think a lot of people focus on ‘This racist person changed is no longer racist because they did X and Y’ Yeah, awesome, but what made them racist in the first place? When are we going to treat the conditions that make people this way?


#194

I think it’s fairly simple, if a person does something against the law, hold them accountable. Not a group based of characteristics of that person.

The only groups that should be held accountable together would be groups like the KKK or gangs, or any other groups of that sort.

A white male who shoots a black person should not read that way.

It should read something like a shooting occurred, 1 injured/death, hold the person accountable, once details are ready to be released specify Joe Person shot and killed John doe. Give details about the persons and stop emphasizing on the groups associated with their skin color, gender.

I personally believe there is way too much emphasis on grouping everyone and I think that causes more divide between everyone.

I treat everyone the same, everyone, male, female, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, gay, lesbian, straight, trans, and you know what? The only time I’ve had any issues is when someone perceives it as something it’s not because they associate me with a group. People want equality, but when I treat everyone equal, it doesn’t always matter because some people perceive things differently.

That’s why I say treat everyone as an individual over apart of a group, besides the groups mentioned above.


#195

Side note. I didn’t vote last election because I found both candidates unfit.

I have been said to be a part of the problem because of that, that is an opinion and an opinion trying to force me to do something against my freedom.

If I don’t see someone fit to lead, I will not vote for them. I will not vote for a lesser of 2 evils as the saying goes.


#196

That’s the thing, focus on why “That” person was racist to begin with. Not why that person’s “Group” is racist.


#197

Like, I’m not sure if you understand what I mean my ‘group’ here. I’m talking in terms of societal structure.

Might need to refer to:


The blame is not on ‘everybody’ it’s on the conditions that produce people like this.

For instance, I was more likely to be a fundamentalist than you probably because I grew up in a fundamentalist home.

I am no longer a fundamentalist, but fundamentalist thought and political power in my country will keep producing fundamentalists.

Does this make sense?

I hope we won’t diverge to ‘who is to blame’ gymnastics here.


#198

Reminds me of all the “We solved racism by making this one white dude like black people” movies.

In a perfect world, yes, but so long as we have to navigate a system that was designed to warp race, then we have to examine its effects and engage at the root of the problem, as Saint said, not at the neutral ideal.

You have every right to not vote, but personally I do believe inaction will always serve those you oppose most, simply because you allowed them the reprieve of your silence. Inversely, I think where votes are most powerful are at a grassroots level.


#199

From what I’ve seen, again all this is my experiences, there’s a lot of blame going around thinking people are racist just because of their skin color.

It may not happen all the time everywhere, but it seems to be a major thing happening in the world at the moment, which is what I don’t think is right or productive to help society.

When I talk about groups, I talk about groups of all sorts, every type of group out there. Cops, race, sexual orientation, genders, any of the groups that get held accountable for the individuals. That was what I was talking about. A single white person does not speak for all white people (cough) Trump (Cough). A single black person does not speak for all black people, same goes for all the different groups.

But that’s not how things are perceived, because of the individual, the group gets hate. That’s why I say treat people as the person they are, stop associating as a group, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying don’t be a part of a group, just don’t associate a group because of a persons actions.


#200

A little curious about this? When I see people get defensive or frame people’s arguments like this it’s often because they feel bad. Essentially an #notall thing.

E.G saying ‘Men are being socialized into misogyny’ is not ‘all men are sexist.’
‘We have to unlearn racist biases’ is not "We are racist, and everyone that looks like us is racist.’

I think people see this and perceive that they’re being assigned a flaw and are being ‘blamed for things.’


#201

So that is VERY good evidence for discrimination. But it is important that we frame the problem accurately. There’s another report that says other racial minorities like Asians see similar sentencing rates as whites: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/6bfe/b6c3ff19d89ad9719225af834918e9161d4e.pdf There’s of coures the fact that women by far recieve the largest bias. So can we characterize the issue as white supremacy? No. Can we characterize it as race / sex discrimination? Absolutely.


#202

Yes, it can be seen as bias/a disadvantage. (Stray point, but since most black people are poor in he USA, many of them can’t go to court with good lawyers — again, frame work. Things don’t happen in a void.)

The closer you are to the ‘ideal’ the better you get treated.


#203

Please don’t get started on movies, I’m so tired of political agenda’s in movies. lol

I agree things need to be fixed and changed. But people who want these changes and who can be biased themselves need to rise through the ranks of whatever organization to help fix it from within.

I don’t think everything can be fixed from the outside. It reminds me of the comments about why there’s not as many people of color or female leads in stories/movies. Instead of trying to force writers to change their writings, people should start writing the type of stories they want to see. Forcing others to change is not the right way to do it.

If say a single cop is racist and shoots someone because of race and it’s covered up, then there needs to be people who are completely unbiased investigating, I know it’s not like that, but how do we get to that? At the same time, we can’t have people investigating that think all cops are racist, that won’t help either. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done, but forcing opinions, which that’s all anyone has because everyone has different life experiences, that doesn’t work.

As for the not voting, that’s your opinion, you see it as inaction helping the opposition, I see it as I’m not. If I see all candidates as opposition, as they do not represent me and what I think is right, then no, I will not vote for any of them. Yes, one of them will get elected, but either way, 1 will get elected. I will not be a part of putting someone I oppose into office. Even if it means someone I slightly oppose a little more gets in office than someone else I oppose.


#204

Referring back to my comments, I have not characterized this discrimination as white supremacy.