why is it taking so long for people to get woke?

discussion
world
#285

Right right, of course. I meant that when such things like gender/race/economics and mental health are controlled it appears to at least be a major predictor: " Of all adolescents, those in intact married families are the least likely to commit delinquent acts.3) Children of single-parent homes are more likely to be abused, have emotional problems, engage in questionable behavior, struggle academically, and become delinquent.4) Problems with children from fatherless families can continue into adulthood. These children are three times more likely to end up in jail by the time they reach age 30 than are children raised in intact families, and5) have the highest rates of incarceration in the United States." http://marripedia.org/effects_of_fatherless_families_on_crime_rates

#286

I’m sure there is an element of racial prejudice in the US around these things, but I do believe a lot of it is simply economic in origin, because people who have been subject to racism in the past will not inherit as much wealth

#287

That’s true, of course. But what do we do about something like that? Is it reasonable to enforce enrollment/hiring quotas? Doesn’t that create more victims than it liberates? And if it has more to do with economics, let it just be about that. I was born poor, I still pretty much am. I’ve lived in ghettos. I’ve been homeless. I’ve been hungry. This is why it’s so important to delineate the problem precisely. Race quotas would ignore the many, MANY exceptions to the “rule” and would allow individuals to fall through the cracks because they don’t fit into a stereotype. That’s not justice and can only lead to more racial strife.

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#288

Maybe this could be used sometimes but I’d really rather it wasn’t. Affirmative action hurts poor people the most

#289

A lot of people do not have the same resources as we have.

#290

It honestly all comes down to your definition of “woke”. The conservative/libertarian/moderate version of this is “the red pill”.

This shift in social justice isn’t really new; it just has a different name to it.

#291
  1. They were raised with these beliefs the same way that a lot of people that I know are Christians because they were raised with those beliefs.

  2. More radical social justice movements e.g. misandry/the feminazi movement have made people that actually want real look bad through stereotyping.

  3. They feel that people being allowed to be themselves is some how an attack on them e.g. people who say “I feel like they’re trying to force this LGBT shit on us” when a character could turn out to not be straight (I think I remember seeing happen with Elsa from Frozen) or when a man acts feminine or a woman acts masculine like what happened with Billy Porter when he wore that tux dress.

  4. The sight/ idea of these “other” people’s existence/ lives confuses them/shakes the foundations of who they are e.g. people being homophobic because they can’t accept that they themselves aren’t straight.

Those are all the reasons that I could think of off the top of my head.

#292

This is very true and the media is masterful with their technique. The politicians take it a step further, since being divisive is the easiest way to get elected and reelected. As long as the politicians have people at each others throats, they never have to answer for anything. All it takes is a little fear to solidify a base behind a politician, which leads to reelection the majority of the time. Recently, it has been ramped up a little more than in the past and people are no longer concerned with their way of life being harmed. Now, it’s their lives that are believe to be on the line.

#293

I think a lot of people in America are conditioned to be oblivious to world or national issues. “The ozone layer is thinning! Better stay inside and play some video games!” Or, “The government has just violated the first amendment! Better watch this cute cat video.”

“With our current habits, we won’t have clean water in the next 30 years! You should relax and buy a pizza.”

We’re kind of conditioned to follow authority figures and listen to what “other people” are saying, rather than forming our own individual thoughts.

Thousands and thousands of years of evolution, and this is what we got, everyone. I’m not impressed, humanity. SMH. Not that we haven’t made some great breakthroughs, or are trying. I mean, women can wear whatever they want, gay people can marry, and we just took the first ever image of a black hole recently.

There are still issues, but I guess not all of it’s bad. Just wish things would progress a bit faster sometimes. I’m never really sure how to help things progress, rather than hinder them. I don’t exactly want to be a feminazi or a part of the antifa group, but it seems like the media gives those kinds of radicals all the attention. If I try to speak my mind, I’m labeled as something, rather than just “Oh, maybe she’s got a good idea,” or “BOO. THIS HOE DUMB. I’m outta here.” People have to label and change other people, rather than accept people as people and move on to changing the actual world around them.

#294

See I don’t even engage in these conversations despite being: (1. Trans women, (2. Autistic, (3. Lesbian–being trans isn’t the same thing as an orientation, (4. other specific issues.

I feel like rather than engaging the topic honestly, it’s like some people make it a game about how marginalized some kind of game they play. I could name a bunch of different minority groups I am if I wanted to, but there is just no point in having those kind of relationships with people.

And what’s more baffling to me, I’m suppose to be this stuff is apparently “Leftism”. Tell that to Emma Goldman and Joseph Proudon.

#295

What is “woke”?

#296

Sure, the world is becoming more accepting of people who identify as LGBTQ+, but that doesn’t mean that the world doesn’t hate them. Since you’re from America, as am I, let’s take a look at some of the things that have happened to LGBT people in America.

The FBI has multiple cases of hate crimes directed against LGBT people since the passing of the Hate Crime Statistic Act. It’s been happening ever since 1969. There is an entire list of LGBT violence on Wikipedia.

And last time I checked, there are only 27 countries in the world that legalise gay marriage. Around 70 countries have criminalised any gay relationship. In some, you can be stoned to death.

Speaking of death, transgender people are one of the most marginalised identities in the LGBT community. Their life expectancy is 35 years old, given to how many times they are being killed. Given all of this information, although I would love to live in a world where we still are not persecuted, we aren’t close enough to say the world does like gay people. The world is becoming slightly more tolerant, but we can’t hop on that train, yet.

When @therealbereth said that black people are being killed, which is true, they are referring to the rampant police brutality that people like to deflect with black-on-black crime statistics. Is it not strange that black people face more scrutiny by police officers? How, even if you’re trying to reach for a wallet, you would most likely be shot? Because that’s what happened to Philando Castile. Or Trayvon Martin, reaching into his pocket to get out a bag skittles.

This recklessness is costing lives. When Black Lives Matter started, there have been people in support. But there have also been people who were not supportive, saying that it’s a cult or trying to deflect with “All Lives Matter” or “Blue Lives Matter”. Not realising that it isn’t saying that the lives of black and brown people matter more; it’s saying that it matters too. Our lives are just as important and significant as anyone else.

Here is the definition of ‘alienate’: experiencing or inducing feelings of isolation or estrangement. From that definition alone, you could infer that in a world like this, it doesn’t necessarily care about the experiences and feelings of people with disabilities. When doing certain things, they don’t consider how it would affect disabled people; only those who are able-bodied.

I really don’t think the person you were responding to was referring to a Nazi mantra. I am going to direct you to a news article that states something similar to what the OP said. I think that you are a very ignorant person, especially about the things that happens in our own country.

The time for “civil” about these matters has been long over. Marginalised people need justice more than being civil with the people that oppress them. We need people who will listen to our views and actively fight alongside us to obtain the rights we should’ve had. Instead, we are silenced, vilified or people talk over us.

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#297

Hi there! :smiley: I’m autistic too! How are you doing today? I’m currently writing a book where the main character is autistic.

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#298

why is it taking so goddamn long for people to become woke?

People take too much to-too late time to get woke because they don’t have enough time nor the right situation to become woke.
Nobody is 100% interested in all the world’s problems or topics/mysteries. Everyone tries to survive and fit in the system they are born in and are forced to be in that system by being influenced by everything and everyone against their will but at the same time by their own will.

Why use force on the face, when we can do it behind your back? Let’s promote something that’s of no interest on such a rate that people will think it is actually the mass influence, they will like it because most people are not born artists so it’s easier to manipulate the artistic views when you have total control over them. And to seem quite fine, make the good stuff hardly found so if something is said against that…well…it’s there, can you argue? NO. Because they are at the same time true to their word.

So…think that, if everyone would take the required time to think stuff out without looking at others to find all sorts of info that can be ambigous, influencial, enforced or even a lie…nobody would even freaking work, they will just stand, looking at eachother with the eyes open like ‘‘holly…shit…what the heck are we part of?’’ and then what will happen is Armageddon (the feared era of earth where people become so damn woke they will do witch hunts on the bad guys and law creating a total anarchy).
As long as there will be hidden executions of those that actually know how the shit works and try to do something about it because something has to be done, nobody will do shit.

If there was a mass awakening too, think of WW3, where goverments will threaten their own soldiers to kill people so their families won’t be secretly killed too in case the bad guys escape.
Good people never did shit about the bad guys and the usual cringe learning curve of some oldschool fantasy stories where the good will let the bad survive is usually meant to show how bad it is as they always emerge and destroy the good.

So just as most men say ‘‘you don’t want your wife to start thinking or you’ll end up in hell’’. So that is mostly applied. ‘‘Ahhh, if we want this to work, we must keep them preocupied, divided…and when everyone is divided, what happens? We take over and sell them weapons to kill eachother, so we take advantage of their madness, to gain trust and show that we are the true way forward…after that let’s just hold a side, the best side to hold is the minor side, they are always the best side to hold, it shows you’re just, it is ‘‘good’’ as the stories say, and so we are just, and can kill and attack others at free will because hell, we are just, right? Ofc we are. And everyone believes we hold an actual side, think what will happen when the minorities will be a majority and wake up that we really couldn’t give 2 deadly shits about them. It’s all fun and business after all.’’

What do I want to say with all this? Well…with all the chaos around, you can already tell that most of the main plan works wonders. They enhance pride so people will fight eachother based on race/color/beliefs, EVERYTHING they can find, they are desperate to get to a point even I can’t predict.

Let me also tell you a shocking truth that applies to everyone: good people never fight eachother, good people never get interest in conflict and good people respect eachother no matter the gender/race/color/beliefs/ cat next door that tells them lies and gossips about what’s happening around the neighborhood. This is an unspoken rule that I learned in all my experience with life.

So then tell me, do we really need woke people? I mean…pfft who wants to live in a boring good life where everyone knows what respect and love is, where nobody has mental issues because of parents and systems. Where women won’t be used and men will learn how to behave again.
Pfft who needs that, am I right? It doesn’t get people killed, it doesn’t make industry a forced boost. It doesn’t benefit anyone, right?

The main core of every problem we find offensive today is our system, our collective beliefs that we have got by unwillingly submitting to those that we thought would change the course of history. But again, they kept their words. They did, in a bad way, because it is a good way for them. So again, can’t blame them when it’s us that are the problem in the first place.

Nazis rise to power was a consequence of oppression, Hitler and his beliefs dared to get up, and did it by all sorts of strategies that are used even now by everyone in the media. They covered up every lie they had with pretty words because it benefited the people in pain, and then they got most hated, even the people that chose to not be a part of it and just simply had a life in that space in time must face the same consequence of labels. And then we made games, movies, to remind everyone how inhuman they were because victors write history. And in a way they were not wrong either. Why? Because you can’t blame them. They defeated THE ENEMY, AN ENEMY, and that benefited the people.

Let’s not forget that every country involved were inhuman monsters after all, in a war, NOBODY is just and NOBODY is moral. Everyone who says otherwise, as some of the thinkers say, never saw war in their own life, nor ever suffered enough.

When Japan slapped US for sabotaging the supplies to Germans, US used nukes.
When Germans dared to enter Russia, Russians ate them alive, used animals as anti-tank units.
When Germans went to war they used inhuman strategies to control the people and kill those who were believed to be the main problem.

And then let’s remember that these things I just said paved the way to the so ‘‘great’’ America, to the all-mighty Russia, to so developed Japan, and so just empire of Europe.

If all the men that died, women that were raped and kids that were used in that war saw what they died for or what thought it would be a just cause to die for…would see how the world is now…We’d be living in 4th Reich here in Europe, America wouldn’t have lost so many people, and Russia and China would’ve now been deleted.

That would’ve been the consequence of not fighting. But then another consequence would be that Fascism would be the second Communism. And so we get back to this point in history again.

So do we really need woke people? Are they good for the system? As you probably figured out after reading this whole thing: NO. Nobody in power wants woke people because woke people see past lies. Woke people fight for a better future. And they must be stopped at all costs.
Because one thing we are all afraid of is one thing: Each and every one of us.
A person running from the world is a death penalty also.

So in every case we riot and are mad on the police, yes we do want them to be on our side, but we never think of what they have to suffer for when choosing a side.
People always say alternatives of everything either if it’s good or bad, what matters at the end is if it benefits the people.

So if anyone should be put to choose between the left or right, they should learn forward, pardon themselves and say they lean towards being human.

#299

That’s exactly what it means. I’m not saying LGBT people do not experience discrimination and even oppression in some countries, but saying a thing like “the world hates gay people” is extraordinarily imprecise. What’s mostly amazing is that the people who say something like this will often go on to excuse many Muslim countries even though they are the most anti-gay societies on earth. The point: “The Would” does not hate gay people, backward religious countries do. Not the west. We need to be exact otherwise we can’t know where the problem is.

Yeah no. Their life expectancy is that low because they have a suicide attempt rate of more than 40%, NOT because they are being killed in the streets. And before you give me the “they’re killing themselves because society treats them so badly” shtick, consider that the only other group in history with a suicide rate that high were the jews under Nazi Germany. So, you’re going to have to prove they are facing the same situation as the jews in the 1930’s 40’s in order for me to believe they are doing it because of a lack of acceptance. The reality is that it’s at least linked to some kind of mental illness. I’m sorry if that’s not PC, but I actually do care about people and I see thousands of people not getting the help they may need because society has convinced them they don’t need it. Imagine if society did the same for bipolar people, or clinically depressed people. I don’t care if you think I’m ignorant, I couldn’t give a shit. YOUR unfounded beliefs might be hurting people, not some phantom transphobia on my part.

As an aside, having a mental illness is not something to be ashamed of. So if you think I’m being insulting, I’m really not trying to be. I’m clinically depressed and I have aspergers, it’s who I am and I’ve gotten help based on those needs.

I’ve already given information that tells the story of what’s happening. Black people are killed by police in greater numbers because they commit crimes in greater number… FAR greater numbers. If you commit more crime, you’re going to encounter the police more. I won’t go through this again, if you want my arguments you can read through my previous comments yourself.

I’m aware of the definition, I’ve simply never heard of this. If you have information on HOW disabled people are intentionally alienated from society please share it.

Of course not, they were just accidentally adopting it, lol.

Right, It’s at this point my patience has run out. People who disagree with you are not your oppressors, you don’t get to shout them down, call them racist, homophobic, misogynists or whatever, and then claim your abhorrent behaviour is self-defence. You don’t want civil debate because you’re evidently afraid of it. You know your position isn’t infallible so you’d rather shut the opposition down with accusations of some immorality or another. You very much DO need to provide evidence for supposed oppression and injustice, and you DON’T get to call people who ask for that evidence your oppressors. I suppose I should have known better than to stick my hand in the hornets nest, because I’ve been debating like five people on this, but I’m afraid I’m just over it. Debate or don’t. If you insinuate that I’m a bad person, I’m out.

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#300

I’ve tried being ‘woke’, didn’t really work out that well. I personally don’t like it that much anymore, I mean you can be ‘woke’ but the whole thing kind of gears me away. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

(please don’t kill me, lol)

#301

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#302

Civility is a strategy. Purposefully burning your public image down will probably not have positive results for any movement. Especially when getting rid of civility generally results in intellectual laziness and extreme arrogance, the display of which by some activist has undermined their own causes.

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#303

What does it even mean to say “the world” has a specific opinion about anything at all?

To be fair, I think most people on the earth are somewhat homophobic but that is likely to change and a lot of that is people in poor conservative nations

#304

Wanna share?