why is it taking so long for people to get woke?

discussion
world
#142

O-okay!

#143

I’m not overly dogmatic in my beliefs. I don’t judge people for thinking a certain way in the least. People think what they think generally out of compassion and whatever facts they’ve been given (or deprived of). I think it’s rare someone believes a thing because they’re motivated by hate.

#144

I don’t really agree, tbh.

Maybe to some extent with how media flairs cynicism.

#145

What I ask myself everyday. Why is it so hard to respect gay people? Why is it so hard to just… admit they exist? Why is it so hard to treat black people like you treat white people?

#146

Alright

#147

There was just a massive discussion about it earlier on but yeah, they’re valid questions that are always prone to debate and disagreement… there’s never one answer to it

1 Like
#148

I do have a nice video on this. (How societal frame works hierarchies work.) If you haven’t done philosophy before it’ll be a little confusing, but it’s still worth the watch.

Skip to 2:13 if you don’t understand wtf is going on initially.

#149

Ok I just saw this and DAMN that was savage

#150

Receipts hit a part of my soul that no god can touch.

It’s not uncommon rhetoric for the oppressed to be required to prove their oppression, while the oppressors are given the benefit of the doubt. This goes back to what @saintc said about people only understanding the struggles personal to them. That’s not an inherently negative thing, but it does highlight the fundamental problem when people who call for “debates”: You’re not looking to test your opinions against robust opposing ones. You’re looking to invalidate the person you’re debating* and, when that fails, fall back on the victim card.

I wasn’t being a smartass when I said go outside. Look at the laws your government passes and dig into who they affect – and not just the big CNN prime time law changes, the local ones that affect voter rights, financial aid, municipal funding, education. If you’re on here as either a reader or a writer – look at the rhetoric in the art that is championed, and how that conversation has evolved in the last ten, twenty, and fifty years. Educate yourself, because the laziest way you can shield yourself is to sit back and demand someone else hand you a crash course.

Oppression isn’t just about putting a bullet in someone’s head, it is about the deliberate and inadvertent, subtle and overt, short- and long-term actions that take power away from one group of people in order to feed another.

4 Likes
#151

I think the idea of ‘degeneracy.’ Is at play here.

It’s not that they ‘can’t respect’ them. It’s that they’re disgusted by them. Hence they see them as a degenerated/corrupted version of themselves or people around them. Hence gay is not normal, and a gay person is just a corrupted straight person. A trans woman is a corrupted man, a woman is a deformed man (this used to be an actual belief. Ah), everyone will be white in heaven and being black is just the mark of Cain (This was a concrete Mormon belief at a point.) etc

Examples for those confused:

  • This is why it is an advantage to be white passing, or to ‘talk like a white person.’

  • This is why gay people who don’t ‘act gay’ are favored more. (What is called ‘straight passing’ in the community.)

3 Likes
#152

So I’m an oppressor now? There is no benefit of the doubt. You’re making the claim that we still live in a racist society. You need to show precise evidence for it, not only for reasons of proof but also for combating said racism. It should be very easy for you if it’s actually happening.

I believe I’ve displayed a good amount of knowledge on the matter. I do take this issue seriously because it does affect me. I’ve done my research and I’ve found little evidence that we live in a systemically racist society. And I’m not sure how you can levy the accusation of laziness on me when I’m literally here, perfectly willing to debate the topic? If you’re going to engage in debate, well, debate.

Can I ask you a serious question? Do you think white people as a group need to apologize to black people? Or need to do anything as a group to do whatever you think might mitigate systemic racism?

#153

:joy:

2 Likes
#154

If you’re looking for book recommendations for your research I could give you some. :slight_smile:

#155

And if, by God, you manage to subvert all the biases against you and earn the respect freely given to others, then you “are one of the good ones.” You are the exception that allows the rule to stand unchallenged. People think systems are rigid but they’re built to bend just enough to keep from breaking.

Sigh. No, darling, you’re not an oppressor, you’re a passive observer of oppression. No, worse, a blind observer.

And that’s the single droplet of condensation quivering on the very tip of the iceberg. And that’s just what I’ve heard about your country from across the Atlantic. Don’t get me started about South Africa.

Why would you need to do anything about an issue that doesn’t exist? Chill, bro.

3 Likes
#156

This is the annoying part.

Once someone starts with their ‘you’re not like the others’ speech this is my closing the door to our ‘friendship.’

3 Likes
#157

Well, while I’m researching your links you can watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwaBO6U43U

There are several videos with Larry Elder and he pretty much addresses most points I’ve heard coming from BLM.

#158

The funny thing about this discussion is trying to tell people who are experiencing this that it doesn’t exist.

4 Likes
#159

I find it interesting how even within oppressed groups, there is still more oppression. You’d think if you’re fighting for your own rights, you wouldn’t want to stamp out someone else’s.

Within a minority group, there are still men that hate women. There are still straight people who hate gay people. Yet when that group as a whole is fighting for their rights, they’re contradicting their own behavior.

(Obviously this happens in non-oppressed groups as well. It’s just interesting when it happens within an oppressed race, for example, because you’d think someone who experiences racism wouldn’t want to be sexist or homophobic.)

Sigh. I don’t get why we all can’t just get along. I will never understand how one person can look at another and make the decision that they aren’t as good as them based off of… nothingness.

#160

Yeah, I pointed to that here.

It is very much an ‘if I don’t experience it, it does not exist’ mindset.

#161

Sorry, only read the first few responses. I’m getting ready for work :joy: but yes, it frustrates me to no end.

1 Like